Curse

Ravious · Oct 22, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by pansy malfoy

Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaay, I got one

Will email it all back when I'm not uh, at Disneyland.

You have clearly won at life.

*Darcy* · Oct 22, 2009, 11:31 AM // 11:31

Congratulations to all who were accepted. Do a great job, please.

@ all the "bah! humbug!" people: did you even read the application? I read it. It asked about how you spent your playing time. So, from the start, they were looking for a cross spectrum of GW players. They were not looking for PvP players only. I didn't apply although I have a lot of playing time as I did not feel I had the in-depth game knowledge I was sure would be needed.

And I am sure that as Krewe members drop out, more of the many qualified people will receive invites.

Also remember that this forum is only a small percentage of GW players. That so many members received invites is amazing.

Masmar · Oct 22, 2009, 11:39 AM // 11:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Page 1 of the thread: Masmar says s/he's from Scotland and got in.

I am indeed

I know one Dutch person got in too, so no worries

Minami · Oct 22, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Why shouldn't we be able to q_q a bit about it without being called a "bad loser"?
At least we truly feel bad about not getting in because we thought we could bring a lot to the team, unlike someone who might have written "I just wanna get in for teh lulz" to the application question...

Yes, I q_q about this for a day or so, because I had my heart and mind set for trying my best to make Anet and the community happy with my input (be it skill change, serious PvP, "light" PvP, Elite Missions or new quests testing [YES, I play both PvP and PvE]), and those hopes were shot down hard.
I don't want to change the world, I just wanted to try and give opinions that could make the game as smooth and enjoyable to everyone as possible.

Fril Estelin · Oct 22, 2009, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Enon

That's besides the point. There are dedicated players out there who 'understand' GW and do have the experience needed, regardless of /age. Anet could've really benefited from them if they actually bothered to look beyond /age and filtered out all the l33t people. Besides, we both know that playtime doesn't say shit when it comes understanding GW.

Edit

(I'm seriously not trying to sound like a jerk.) Thank you. This is the whole point I'm trying to make.

Read the "job offer", this was NOT a "job" for a designer, but for a tester. As JR explained, it's QA, testing and reporting. Hence Regina's comment here and the fact that the great players (and we don't know whether they're not in, only Ensign, Billiard: did you apply and get in?) may not be in.

Test will indeed influence design choices, but there's no room for the tester to propose design choices in the first place.

Test Me · Oct 22, 2009, 11:43 AM // 11:43

... now comes the scary part. Knowing the negative bunch that hangs around GWG... I really hope they won't have too much decision power as otherwise they might just hit the final nail in the GW coffin given the ideas and attitudes some (or most?) people around here have.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: I hope all of you that got accepted are mature enough to put your own agenda/ego bellow the needs of the general mass of players and understand what is better for all instead of pushing for something that is better for *you*.

Otherwise congratulations on the acceptance in the program!

Myself, could never apply for it because I just love playing GW and testing changes before they're released will only spoil my fun and surprise when the updates do get out

Aljasha · Oct 22, 2009, 12:09 PM // 12:09

as stated before, they may kick testers as easily as they invited them. so your fear is unfounded.

Pleikki · Oct 22, 2009, 12:10 PM // 12:10

Congratulations To ppl who got in!

i didnt even bother apply myself. allready busy enough

Revelations · Oct 22, 2009, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Good to see that such a representative sample was picked from the GW population.

Though PvP is dead, I'm pretty sure it warrants more than Axiom on the team. Unless it is indeed just over-glorified bug testing.

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2009, 12:51 PM // 12:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Test will indeed influence design choices, but there's no room for the tester to propose design choices in the first place.

No, but what's the difference?

Test Krewe (as a whole) wants:

Shadow form: xx duration.

Anet gives them a Shadow form : yy duration.

They all reply with: "YY duration won't work proporly, you need xx duration".

Anet gives Shadow Form: xx duration.

Sure, test krewe isn't designing shit, but they have some serious leverage. As I said before in my previously deleted posts: With anet's knowledge of their own game, it's very doubtfull they'll understand what the Test Krewe is achieving to do.

And to put it to an extreme:
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the many PvE'ers, that got selected for the Test Krewe, suggested GvG should have Juggernaughts and Siege Turtles to spice it up, Anet would actually concider that "what the public wants" and implement it.

Aside from JR, Axiom and some other's whom I can count on 1 hand, no-one in the Test Krewe has ever been involved in some serious PvP. (High end HA / GvG)

As a matter of fact, NOONE, so far, has outed themselves as a top HA-er. (You know, the most popular PvP format?)

And to that morron who says: "Not everyone who got selected posts here on guru", pretty much proves the point. These people arn't on guru for a reason: They have nothing to contribute to the community.

Why should a person who never bothered to do anything for the community suddenly be in charge for maintaining the quality of updates for that community, over a person who has been discussing and proposing skill updates (Not just skill updates, but overal updates aswell) on guru for 2+ years?!

Again, they selected people at random, made sure they had 4-5 known players and then kick back and relax for 2-3 months saying how busy they are trying to put together the Test Krewe.

It happened with the hencman contest, and I clearly just happened again...

Riot Narita · Oct 22, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

No, but what's the difference?
Test Krewe (as a whole) wants:
Shadow form: xx duration.
Anet gives them a Shadow form : yy duration.
They all reply with: "YY duration won't work proporly, you need xx duration".
Anet gives Shadow Form: xx duration.

A-net tweaks skills, and ask the Krewe members to test.

Krewe members report skills are either working working or not working - according to the skill descriptions... any OP combinations/abuses/exploits they found... and suggestions.

A-net considers test results... fixes bugs, maybe tweaks to prevent exploits etc. Suggestions... maybe they'll go with it, maybe they won't. They aren't going to blindly do whatever the Krewe says, which is what you seem to think. I doubt there will even be a consensus among the krewe for a-net to act on anyway.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Sure, test krewe isn't designing shit, but they have some serious leverage.

They might have some serious "leverage" - influence on design - if a large majority of krewe agrees on something.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the many PvE'ers, that got selected for the Test Krewe, suggested GvG should have Juggernaughts and Siege Turtles to spice it up, Anet would actually concider that "what the public wants" and implement it.

OK, now I am starting to think you are away with the pixies.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

And to that morron who says: "Not everyone who got selected posts here on guru", pretty much proves the point. These people arn't on guru for a reason: They have nothing to contribute to the community.

Why should a person who never bothered to do anything for the community suddenly be in charge for maintaining the quality of updates for that community, over a person who has been discussing and proposing skill updates (Not just skill updates, but overal updates aswell) on guru for 2+ years?!

Illogical conclusion.

There may be people who choose to contribute on other online sites, rather than guru... after all, guru is not always - how can I put it - the most pleasant place to hang out. There are other large GW sites, some are not in English, and there are the wikis. For all we know, people may be making great contributions to the GW (not guru) community... simply within the game itself.

There may also be people who are contributors to the guru "community" (LOL), and who are members of the Krewe... but have not announced the fact. If it was me, I'd keep quiet about it, so that people wouldn't try to get me to use my "influence" to change things in their favour, or to get NDA-breaking tidbits of information, early warning of changes etc.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Again, they selected people at random, made sure they had 4-5 known players and then kick back and relax for 2-3 months saying how busy they are trying to put together the Test Krewe.

Pure speculation.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

It happened with the hencman contest, and I clearly just happened again...

"Clearly"? No. You seem to have trouble distinguishing what is fact, and what is just your opinion.

Fril Estelin · Oct 22, 2009, 01:29 PM // 13:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Test Krewe (as a whole) wants:

Shadow form: xx duration.

Anet gives them a Shadow form : yy duration.

They all reply with: "YY duration won't work proporly, you need xx duration".

Anet gives Shadow Form: xx duration.

It's rather going to go like this:

Anet says: "hey guys can you please test the SF we've made?"
LTK goes to work...comes back and says "it solves the problem X, but causes problem Y and doesn't work with Z" etc.

Better example: as Linsey said via Regina's recent journal entry, Live Team are thinking of a few GvG tiebreaker mechanisms and want LTK to test them for comparison.

Quote:

I wouldn't be surprised if one of the many PvE'ers, that got selected for the Test Krewe, suggested GvG should have Juggernaughts and Siege Turtles to spice it up, Anet would actually concider that "what the public wants" and implement it.

Test Krewe, not Design Krewe. There are good designers who would make bad testers (e.g., bored with repetitive tests, not good at comm?), and vice versa.

Quote:

And to that morron who says: "Not everyone who got selected posts here on guru", pretty much proves the point. These people arn't on guru for a reason: They have nothing to contribute to the community.

(Edit: what I obviously meant by these smileys is ... what about GWO? the wiki? French/German/Spanish/Asian fansites?)

JR · Oct 22, 2009, 01:32 PM // 13:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

No, but what's the difference?

Test Krewe (as a whole) wants:

Shadow form: xx duration.

Anet gives them a Shadow form : yy duration.

They all reply with: "YY duration won't work proporly, you need xx duration".

Anet gives Shadow Form: xx duration.

Sure, test krewe isn't designing shit, but they have some serious leverage. As I said before in my previously deleted posts: With anet's knowledge of their own game, it's very doubtfull they'll understand what the Test Krewe is achieving to do.

What exactly do you mean by 'won't work properly'?

Izzy is hardly a push-over when it comes to balance, and will always analyze things himself before making a change. No amount of badgering from the LTK is going to change that.

Let's not also forget that I believe he still runs the not-so-secret balance forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

And to put it to an extreme:
I wouldn't be surprised if one of the many PvE'ers, that got selected for the Test Krewe, suggested GvG should have Juggernaughts and Siege Turtles to spice it up, Anet would actually concider that "what the public wants" and implement it.

If that was the case it would have happened a long time ago, but it didn't. Instead we got UAX, obs mode, J menu...

ArenaNet do understand competitive play. Martin K particularly, having helped organize numerous tournaments for the German community over the years.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Why should a person who never bothered to do anything for the community suddenly be in charge for maintaining the quality of updates for that community, over a person who has been discussing and proposing skill updates (Not just skill updates, but overal updates aswell) on guru for 2+ years?!

Again, this isn't some master-class game design club. Anyone who is in LTK with the intention of having a serious influence on game design will not last long. They will soon feel burned out on their issues when they realize their voices are drowned out by countless others - as is always the case with large groups on a forum.

Also, we have no idea how this will interact with the members of Izzy's forum, amongst whom are some more well known HA players. I would strongly assume that a quite a few of the balance forum guys will be merged into the LTK, which would explain why there haven't been that many notable PvP players outed here - because they are already in (though obviously they will still have to sign an NDA etc).

[EDIT: I think "Tito Bad Boy Ortiz" and "bamboocha" made it in to LTK, both being (I believe) HA players of note.]

Konig Des Todes · Oct 22, 2009, 01:34 PM // 13:34

Quote:

Originally Posted by fenix

Grats to Axiom, Arky, JR and Auron. At least SOME decent players got in.

I'm hurt, I'm not a decent player?

Don't worry, Anet can kick people off the Test Krewe at any time, so if it turns out some people are not qualified for the job after this point, they will be kicked.

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

New content (including quests, henchmen, any revamped skills) needs to be bug-free, that means idiot-proof. You need people of all levels to try out everything to make sure it's working correctly.

We don't want a few top guilds secretly working on the next great build and then trying to hide it. We want idiots to go out and pwn RA with their R/As in the open. We also don't want the next ridiculous gimmick seen as less of a problem because it's just running up against top 50 that have the skill to dismantle it.

We also don't need people getting so hung up on honor theorycraft that they miss the practical effects of X or Y change. AFAIK there will still be the place for the elitists to theorycraft and influence balance changes, but there will also be the room for anyone to make or break the results of that with their own hands before it goes live. The NF preview event was broken by Spearmen "nobodies", not by the top guilds of the time. Rebel Rising don't put any of the time into practicing anymore that other top guilds do, but they were the only ones with the balls (dishonor?) to run R/As with hexers and destroy that MAT.

There needs to be people willing to try stupid, dishonorable, risky, or unobvious things, as some of them will hit on something ridiculous, be it bug, balance, or design flaw. A group of just the best and the brightest aren't necessarily going to do that. (let alone be amenable to Anet's workhorse schedules.)

This is a very valid and true point. If it was all top notch people, then we'd have a ton of DoA and early THK's added to the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by refer

NDA lol. I want to see hear some leaked updates, I know it will happen.

And if it does, not only will those people be kicked from the Test Krewe, they will be sued and have to pay ANet's attorney. I read the fine print.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon-e-mouse

Martin,

Please tell me that people outside of the US are part of the Test Crewe... Because if there isn't I'm going to be one very peeved player..

Page 3, "It's good to be king"

Revelations · Oct 22, 2009, 01:36 PM // 13:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

Better example: as Linsey said via Regina's recent journal entry, Live Team are thinking of a few GvG tiebreaker mechanisms and want LTK to test them for comparison.

Oh dear Lord, they're going to have input on the tiebreaker? As if the current one isn't bad enough without 195 pvers picking a potential new one.

Fril Estelin · Oct 22, 2009, 01:37 PM // 13:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Konig Des Todes

Page 3, "It's good to be king"

They even invited people from the crystal desert. A. Ma. Zing.

:P

EDIT:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revelations

Oh dear Lord, they're going to have input on the tiebreaker? As if the current one wasn't bad enough without 195 pvers picking a potential new one.

No, they're going to help the Live Team decide by giving them information about how the different mechanisms play in practice. They do NOT pick anything (unless there's some sort of manipulation, but the consequences of that are serious when an NDA is signed), they're ASKED questions by LT and then answer accordingly after testing.

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2009, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Ok, I said the juggernaught thing was stretchin it. But that, in essence, is what the test krewe is supposed to do.

Test stuff out, report errors, and post suggestions to fix said errors. The Siege Turtle/Juggernaught was supposed to put it into perspective, but you guys didn't look past the letters.

My point is that with only a handfull of players experienced in the PvP scene, how can we expect half decent updates now?

I can only HOPE that JR and Axiom get privelege spots in the PvP section, but even that doesn't fix the HA problem.

As for other fansites:

Pre-Searing has a fansite aswell, does that mean they should be included in the Test-Krewe aswell?

And no offence, but all those fansites I concider "non-PvP sites". I know the Test-Krewe is both PvE and PvP, and I might have missed if they anounced they were going to split up the Test Krewe in sections. (I can assume they will, but knowing anet...)

Bob the Charr farmer simply shouldn't have a voice in the descission on skill updates. I'm really sorry, but it's the truth.

What you guys want is to have a equal representation of the population in your Test Krewe. If that were the truth, Shadow Form would get BUFFED instead of nerfed.

What about chinese farmers, they deserve a say to?

My point is that you need the RIGHT PEOPLE for the RIGHT JOB. And Anet clearly failed at doing so.

Revelations · Oct 22, 2009, 01:46 PM // 13:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fril Estelin

No, they're going to help the Live Team decide by giving them information about how the different mechanisms play in practice. They do NOT pick anything (unless there's some sort of manipulation, but the consequences of that are serious when an NDA is signed), they're ASKED questions by LT and then answer accordingly after testing.

I'm not sure I trust Anet enough to ask the right questions, let alone the ability of pvers to give informed answers. Don't get me wrong - I'm sure your garden variety pver is a wonderful guy, but he also has virtually no experience with anything but the most casual of GvG.

Here's to hoping JR is correct in his assumption concerning the balance forum lot. Especially if said balance forum members had anything to do with the most recent set of skill changes.

Riot Narita · Oct 22, 2009, 01:48 PM // 13:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Pre-Searing has a fansite aswell, does that mean they should be included in the Test-Krewe aswell?

Nobody suggested every fan site should be represented. The point is, you seem to think that only people who post on guru are making a contribution to "the community" and deserve to be in the krewe. I don't agree. There are other ways/places people may contribute to "the community".

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

Bob the Charr farmer simply shouldn't have a voice in the descission on skill updates. I'm really sorry, but it's the truth.

Bob the Charr farmer doesn't have a say in the decisions. Neither does the krewe. The krewe are there to test whatever a-net wants to try out. A-net make the decisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

What you guys want is to have a equal representation of the population in your Test Krewe.

Who, me? You think you know what I want?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

If that were the truth, Shadow Form would get BUFFED instead of nerfed.

No. Because whatever the makeup of the krewe, they do not design, nor do they make the decisions.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

What about chinese farmers, they deserve a say to?

You should stop now. You're getting hysterical.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Killed u man

My point is that you need the RIGHT PEOPLE for the RIGHT JOB. And Anet clearly failed at doing so.

"Clearly"? No. Again.

You know a few people who have said they were accepted into the krewe. You do not know who was accepted but hasn't said so, and you don't know who else is in the krewe or what their experience/expertise is. In other words, what you are saying is pure speculation.

Maybe they don't have many "expert" PvP-ers... or maybe they do. If they don't, that may reflect the fact that the PvP population is a tiny minority compared to PvE-ers, according to A-net.

Killed u man · Oct 22, 2009, 01:56 PM // 13:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR

What exactly do you mean by 'won't work properly'?

Izzy is hardly a push-over when it comes to balance, and will always analyze things himself before making a change. No amount of badgering from the LTK is going to change that.

Let's not also forget that I believe he still runs the not-so-secret balance forum.

If that was the case it would have happened a long time ago, but it didn't. Instead we got UAX, obs mode, J menu...

ArenaNet do understand competitive play. Martin K particularly, having helped organize numerous tournaments for the German community over the years.

Again, this isn't some master-class game design club. Anyone who is in LTK with the intention of having a serious influence on game design will not last long. They will soon feel burned out on their issues when they realize their voices are drowned out by countless others - as is always the case with large groups on a forum.

Also, we have no idea how this will interact with the members of Izzy's forum, amongst whom are some more well known HA players. I would strongly assume that a quite a few of the balance forum guys will be merged into the LTK, which would explain why there haven't been that many notable PvP players outed here - because they are already in (though obviously they will still have to sign an NDA etc).

[EDIT: I think "Tito Bad Boy Ortiz" and "bamboocha" made it in to LTK, both being (I believe) HA players of note.]

The shadowform example is how I think the LTK will work, no? Anet delivers an update, LTK can test it on the private server, and they give feedback, INCLUDING suggestions, no? (Isn't the intire point of feedback to give suggestions?)

For the siege turtles thing: If it were the truth, it would have happened a long time ago.

This isn't really true, because never has Anet put responsibility in the hands of the community. I gues what I'm fearing is that Anet BELIEVES they made a good selected in their LTK, and believe the LTK represents what is good for the game. Hence, if some randoms would make "bad PvP descissions" -Such as my siege turtles- , they would concider that as a serious possibility.

Again, sad as it is, but I can only hope the Balance forums get merged with the Krewe.

And last but not least: HA (My favorite scene)

Bamboocha NEVER plays HA. He played SF farm 1 year ago, and I haven't seen him since... SF got nerfed. (I'm serious, I haven't seen him ever since -Didn't he play A/P spike in GvG?)

I know Josh (Tito Bad Bot Ortizz) personally. And I know he's a great guy, and will do the best he can to give positive feedback. But the builds that guy plays, I can count on one hand.
He honestly has no clue how HA mechanics works. He's what is generally known as a "bitchbar"-player. (Sorry josh, but you're still a good player, and a nice guy

)

What I wanted to see was people who understand HoH mechanics. Understand why Relic Run doesn't work. Understand why Cap Points is simply broken. (Blue always wins if you have equally skilled teams)

ESPECIALLY when they announced the new HoH map. I, honestly did, got my hopes up. Figuring it would restore some of HA's former glory. (KoTH, when HA was fun) But with only 2 mentioned HA names so far, 1 of which is a SF-farmer who hasn't HA'd in 1 year, and 1 of which I concider BARELY adequate...

Bleh.